The next is the transcript of the interview with Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut, that aired on “Face the Country with Margaret Brennan” on Dec. 7, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face The Country. We flip now to the highest Democrat at the Space Intelligence Committee, Congressman Jim Himes. He joins us this morning from Connecticut. Welcome again to Face The Country.
REPRESENTATIVE JIM HIMES: Thank you for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re one of the vital few lawmakers proven the categorized model of this September 2 video of the U.S. moves an alleged drug boat close to Venezuela, 4 moves in overall, we have now discovered. You met with Admiral Bradley, who instructions particular operations as neatly. The President of the US says he’s open to this video being made public. Do you suppose it is very important that it change into public, and are you assured it’ll be?
REP. HIMES: I feel it is in point of fact necessary that this video be made public. It is not misplaced on somebody, in fact, that the translation of the video, which you realize, six or seven people had a possibility to peer closing week, broke down exactly on celebration strains. And so that is an example through which I feel the American public wishes to pass judgement on for itself. I understand how the general public goes to be react- goes to react as a result of I felt my very own response. You recognize, I have spent years having a look at movies of deadly motion taken, incessantly within the terrorism context, and this video was once profoundly shaking- shaken, and I feel it will be important for American citizens to peer it. As a result of, glance, there is a specific amount of there is a specific amount of sympathy available in the market for going after drug runners, however I feel it is in point of fact necessary that folks see what it looks as if when the whole pressure the US army is became on two guys who’re clinging to a work of picket and about to head beneath simply so that they’ve form of a visceral really feel for what it’s that we are doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was once it- why did it shake you such a lot? What particularly was once bothering you?
REP. HIMES: Neatly, you realize, and that is form of the dignity, and there is a lot to unpack right here about whether or not that is a certified army motion, which it’s not, and proper on down as to if those have been legitimate- valid objectives, they usually weren’t. However let me return to probably the most evaluations I have executed of alternative deadly motion. Oftentimes, when the Division of Protection takes a strike in opposition to a terrorist in Yemen or Pakistan or anyplace, you watch a video of fellows totally armed with AK-47s and sidearms and bombs and also you title it, and they are on their method to do one thing horrible. And on this example, you’ll have had dangerous guys, I haven’t any doubt that those guys have been concerned within the working of gear. Now, whether or not they have been working it to the US or Europe is but every other query. However in that example, those guys have been about to die. Had the US simply walked away, their little piece of picket would have long gone beneath the waves. And as time and again as Tom Cotton would possibly say that no matter what they have been doing, it issues necessarily what they have been doing. As a result of beneath the legislation, and should you spent quarter-hour in legislation faculty, you realize this, beneath the legislation, if somebody has been struck and is- continues to have interaction in hostilities, issues a gun at you, has a gun, they is also a valid goal. But when they’re outdoor of battle, they don’t seem to be and attacking them is a contravention of the regulations of warfare. And those guys, and because of this the American other people wish to see this video. Those guys have been, have been slightly alive, a lot much less attractive in hostilities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Neatly, the DOD legislation of warfare guide turns out to hinge numerous that on whether or not the individual is wholly disabled from preventing, and that’s the place the Secretary of Protection has used language pronouncing they are about to go back to the struggle. I will play for you what Secretary Hegseth stated on the Reagan Discussion board Saturday. He described what was once taking place with those 4 moves at the alleged drug working boat.
SECRETARY OF DEFENSE PETE HEGSETH ON TAPE: A pair hours later, I used to be instructed, hi there, there needed to be a reattack, as a result of there have been a pair other folks that would nonetheless be within the struggle. Get entry to to radios, there was once a hyperlink up level of every other possible boat, medicine have been nonetheless there, they have been actively interacting with them. Needed to take that reattack. I stated, Roger, sounds just right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does what Hegseth stated fit what Admiral Bradley instructed you?
REP. HIMES: Neatly, there was once numerous loss of readability over precisely what Pete Hegseth’s position right here was once, however Pete Hegseth has no credibility in this subject, proper? Bear in mind, per week after this strike, there was once a briefing for Congress. Why was once a practice up strike taken? The solution then, within the first week of September, was once a practice up strike was once taken as a result of we had to transparent the wreckage in order that there wasn’t a threat to navigation. That was once clarification primary. Rationalization quantity two, proper prior to we watched the video, was once that they could have had a radio, and they’d were radioing a ship, and they’d were seeking to get well the cocaine. After which while you if truth be told watch the video, you know they do not have a radio. They are slightly striking on and no longer slipping underneath the waves. Then we get this factor of the way they are seeking to proper the boat. This was once a couple of 40 foot boat that had simply been hit with an enormous piece of munitions. The conflagration more than likely destroyed the entirety in that boat. However, oh, perhaps they could have swum beneath, gotten a radio, more than likely waterlogged, and radioed a ship that we are not even positive was once there. So what we have now had is a sequence of moving explanations. Oh, and together with the fog of warfare, proper? You recognize that Hegseth stated, neatly, they took the second one strike on account of the fog of warfare. There was once no fog. The army watched this boat very moderately, or I mustn’t even say, boat, they watched the wreckage of the boat very moderately for a protracted time period prior to they took the second one strike. So, glance, what Pete Hegseth says about this strike has 0 credibility at this level.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you’ve self belief in Admiral Bradley?
REP. HIMES: You recognize Admiral Bradley, this was once my first assembly with him. Any person who has ever labored with Admiral Bradley will let you know that he has a storied profession and that he’s a person of deep, deep integrity. And admittedly, I haven’t any explanation why to doubt that. What it raises is, what occurs when an it sounds as if just right guy like Admiral Bradley is positioned in a context the place he is aware of that if he countermands an order that he’s most likely uncomfortable with, it is extremely most probably that he’ll be fired. When he works for a man, Pete Hegseth, who wrote a e book about how we mustn’t apply the regulations of warfare, about how we wish to be deadly in [unintelligible]. It is attention-grabbing to take into consideration how a just right guy in that context perhaps does one thing that, if he were not in that context, he would possibly no longer do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Neatly, Senator Tom Cotton, the chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, stated there have been dozens of JAG law- legal professionals gazing all of this. On NBC this morning he stated all 11 other people at the suspected drug smuggling boat have been legitimate objectives for the reason that U.S. had prime self belief they have been a part of a international 15 May Organization. Have you learnt, have been those prime degree cartel contributors?
REP. HIMES: No, in fact no longer. After all no longer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who have been they, if the U.S. had prime confidence–
REP. HIMES: You suppose Pablo Escobar back- neatly, initially, initially, let’s be tremendous transparent about this. I do not believe we knew the identities of any of the folks within the boat. We would possibly have identified one or two, I do not know, however we without a doubt did not know the identities of all 11. So no person can symbolize who most of these other people in any of those boats are. Now, I’ve sufficient self belief within the intelligence neighborhood to grasp that those are more than likely no longer guys out fishing or guys out, you realize, being vacationers and stuff. They’re virtually without a doubt working medicine. However this in point of fact issues given that you stated. You recognize, if you are going to occupy an immense quantity of the American naval battle capacity, you’ll love to consider that you are going after the leaders, the cartel leaders, the- the kingpins, as they are saying. What we are doing this is we are disposing of the an identical of the nook drug broker within the Bronx, proper? Which, via the way in which, we must arrest the nook drug broker within the Bronx. However the principle explanation why we do this is to head after the kingpins who, I promise you, are sitting in very relaxed villas at the moment in Colombia and Venezuela and all over, and staring at as a lot of the US Army is devoted to disposing of their lowest degree staff.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I pay attention you pronouncing they weren’t on an inside army goal checklist for top price people. That is what I pay attention, what you are pronouncing.
REP. HIMES: Neatly, this is an engaging query. I am not in any respect satisfied that there’s a checklist of people. Now, that is what we do within the terrorism global, proper? We designate prime price objectives. We designate people. I haven’t any explanation why to consider, and actually, I doubt that there are any people at the checklist anyplace. What we’re doing, and I am not going to get extraordinarily particular about it, for obtrusive causes, however what we’re doing is we are choosing up that this boat is also sporting medicine, and to the management, it isn’t important who is in that boat, because- and glance, they are pronouncing this, as a result of if this boat is if truth be told sporting medicine, then we will strike it. So no, I do not believe there’s a checklist of people. I do not believe we have now any concept who exactly the people in those boats are.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In order I realize it, those are signature moves. That is an intelligence overview according to alerts intelligence pronouncing that is who we consider those people to be. You recognize, a few of these defenders of the Trump coverage, like conservative columnists, have argued it is a precedent that was once set via the Obama management, which used signature moves to kill alleged al Qaeda operatives, together with a U.S. citizen at one level in Yemen. Do they’ve some extent right here that the drone coverage has lengthy allowed the killing of suspected criminals, even with out due procedure?
REP. HIMES: Neatly, there may be a few in point of fact necessary distinctions, and you can needless to say the Obama management, there was once numerous debate over whether or not signature moves have been k or no longer. A very powerful difference is that Congress approved the warfare on terror. There was once an authorization for using army pressure. The unique sin of this entire factor, whether or not you suppose we must be losing those guys or no longer, the unique sin is that there is not any congressional authorization. After which within the Obama management, they did have a listing of people, proper? Frequently prime price objectives, or HVTs as we have now referred to them. After which the query was once, you probably have an HVT, a prime price goal, in a jeep in northern Pakistan, and there is a man subsequent to that HVT, you realize, how do you’re feeling about taking that strike? You wish to have to take down the prime price man, however what concerning the younger man subsequent to him? Neatly, the younger man has an AK 47 and the younger man was once if truth be told arranging for the switch of explosives. You have got that dialog, after which you make a decision whether or not you are gonna take the strike. At the moment what we are doing, and back, don’t- I do not believe that there is a checklist of people anyplace. They are simply pronouncing that boat is sporting medicine. And although army isn’t approved via the Congress of the US, we are disposing of the boat, and we do not give a rattling about who is on it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Neatly, and while you say “I do not believe,” you’re a member of the Gang of 8, so possibly that data must be shared with you if it does exist. I wish to ask you prior to I allow you to pass. Signalgate, other people would possibly bear in mind a couple of months in the past, the Trump- a Trump professional added a journalist to a web based workforce on Sign and shared complicated data of an upcoming bombing operation in Yemen. The Pentagon Inspector Common stated Hegseth’s movements risked operational safety and violated federal regulations on report retaining. Hegseth stated he’d do the similar factor far and wide back. Are your Republican colleagues pronouncing in personal that they’ve issues of what came about?
REP. HIMES: Completely, they are pronouncing it in personal. In public, in fact, they are pronouncing that it was once absolute best exoneration, proper? That this document, and also you learn the important thing line, that this document that stated that the Secretary of Protection put his troops within the undertaking in danger, that that is overall exoneration. Now, I did not pay attention the remark about I’d do that back. But when Pete Hegseth stated he would do this again- and glance, back, you do not wish to be an army knowledgeable to take into account that sharing operational main points prior to an operation is a in point of fact, in point of fact, in point of fact dangerous concept. If Pete Hegseth stated that, that he would do this back, you realize, he is simply reinforcing what everyone knows, which is that he has completely no industry in that process. One of the vital delicate and tough jobs to do in the US executive is being executed via anyone who put his personal other people and the undertaking in danger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He stated he lives existence with out be apologetic about on the Reagan Discussion board, that was once the word, to be extra precise. However Congressman Himes, at all times just right to have you ever at the program. I’m going to have to go away it there for as of late. We’re going to be proper again.
